It's now Thursday and everybody wants to know if you have heard from the NCAA about the three players.
Not yet. Should hear something today. But as of 8:09 – of course, it's early. I think the place is somewhere in L.A., so they're about two hours from where we are. So we'll see. Hopefully today some time.
Coach, it's old hat for you guys to show up and do these things now. Can you talk about the preparation you guys are going through? Has anything changed? Is it just the same 'ol, same 'ol, day of the week, name of the week kind of thing?
Well, the timing changed. Dealing with Christmas, that's been a little different. And as far as the – again, just moving the game up, that's changed a little bit of the length of time to prep by a couple days. So that's really the biggest change, is just kind of managing Christmas this time as opposed to the last few times that we've been in this game.
But it's been fun. It really has. It's been a great experience. I really have enjoyed all of it, honestly. And I've been very intentional with that, to just truly enjoy the journey. I've tried to challenge our guys. And just all of it, the preparation, our meetings, our practices, just spending time with these guys because we know we're not going to have much longer with this group.
Hopefully it goes our way Saturday night, but this could be our last time together with these guys. Hopefully we can earn one more game. But this has been an incredibly special group of young people to be around and just the daily grind of hanging with these guys and watching them all season has been just a real joy.
So our prep has been really good in Clemson. It has been really good here. The Cotton Bowl folks have been amazing. They've just made this such an easy experience for us. They have taken great care of us from the transportation, the police escorts, just being able to get to and from practice, to be able to stay on schedule with our itinerary. All those things have been really, really good.
And to be able to practice here, I mean, this has been amazing because this is very different obviously. So to get acclimated to it I think has been a positive for our guys. But overall, great experience.
Ian Book yesterday was talking about the privilege of pressure. I assume you pretty much see things the same way there?
Yeah, I think it is a privilege when you're in situations like this that are so-called 'pressure.' At the end of the day, I always say it's a football game. It's important to all of us. We put in a tremendous amount of work. Both teams want to win, I promise you, to the nth degree. But somebody's going to lose; somebody's going to win. And if we're fortunate enough to win, I mean, Notre Dame has had an amazing year. If they ended up winning, we've had an amazing year.
And you can't let the pressure of a moment steal your joy, you know? I think the biggest focus is just stay focused on the joy of doing, you know? The fact that we're getting the opportunity to do this that very few people get. And the joy of competing at the highest level, I mean, this is what it's all about.
So, yeah, when you have this type of 'pressure,' it is a privilege because that means that you are really getting a chance to experience something and be a part of something that's unique and something you know you're going to remember for the rest of your life.
If you had to put a percentage on it or the way you're looking at Dexter's [Lawrence] availability coming up, how are you feeling about the chances of him playing? How are you trying to move forward and prepare as you get a couple days away?
I have no idea. I have no clue. But as far as our team, you know, we move forward as if, like I said Monday, it's an injury. If they say he can play, boom, that will be a cherry on top.
But we've got a bunch of good players. And Albert Huggins is a co-starter for us anyway. I mean, he's a great, great talent. And I don't have any doubt that he'll step in and do a great job for us, as will Nyles [Pinckney] and Jordan [Williams]. So just more opportunity for those guys. No different than any other position. If you have an injury or somebody can't play for whatever reason, you get the next guy ready.
So as a football coach, that's all we can control. That's how we've gone into the week. So hope to hear something today, but we've prepared fully to go without him.
Where did that substance come from?
I don't have time to worry about that. We've got a game to play. We got a whole team of people who will figure that stuff out. But we spend a
lot of time with it over the past weekend while we were off when I first got notified last Thursday. So we're going to look at anything and everything. I mean, because it could literally could come from anything.
The only thing I know is these guys have not intentionally done anything. That I know. If it's in their system, how it got in there, I have no clue of that. But we'll have to figure that out some way, somehow it could come from anything, anything, literally.
Just wondering if you are surprised you still have Tony Elliott and Brent Venables on your staff and they're not head coaches somewhere at this point.
Not really. I think everything is on God's timing. I think Brent – he's had several opportunities to be a head coach. He just hasn't had the right opportunity that has gotten him fired up. Brent's not going to do anything if he can't be fully passionate about it. So that's just kind of how he's wired. He loves what he does. He's the best at what he does.
But we got a bunch of guys on our staff that are going to be great head coaches. Tony, you said, Jeff Scott. We got a bunch of guys. We've got [Brandon] Streeter. We got several guys. You go over on the other side of the ball, I think Todd Bates and Mike Reed would be great head coaches if they got the opportunity. I can go on and on and on. I've got a bunch of guys on my support staff that we're going to look back 15, 20 years from now and they're going to be great head coaches.
So, you know, I don't know. And several of these guys have had some opportunities. It just hasn't been the right fit for them to walk away from where they are. But I love to see my staff get opportunities that they want. And at some point, that will happen for them.
Do you think this is going to be another BYOG (bring your own guts) game, minus the rain?
It's definitely BYOG game, ain't no doubt. They all are. We won't have a hurricane in here for sure, I don't think. This is definitely a game that's going to take a lot of guts and courage, a lot of heart. And, again, those are things individually you have to bring yourself.
Back to Albert Huggins, can you talk about the process he went through since he came to Clemson and what it took for him to buy into where he's at now?
Well, obviously, a really talented player coming out of high school down in Orangeburg (South Carolina). He was a defensive end, and that's
kind of what he wanted to play; but, pretty quickly, we realized he wasn't a defensive end. His mind was saying defensive end, but his body was saying D-tackle. So it took a little while to transition him and for him to really kind of buy into that.
He's unbelievably strong. He might be the strongest guy, but he's in the top two or three, probably him and [Gage] Cervenka. His strength is unbelievable across the board in all of his numbers. So he's just got a lot of natural gifts for the position. But it took a little while for him to buy in. And then just – I don't think he was as focused on doing what it was going to take to be a great player at this level. I think he had just kind of always been the bigger, stronger guy. And now, you know, he's got a bunch of other big, strong guys around him that I think, early on, worked harder, were more committed, more focused, more disciplined, that loved the meetings, loved the off-season, all that stuff, whereas, Albert [Huggins] did everything that he needed to do. He's a great kid. He's always been a great kid. He just wasn't an above-and-beyond guy.
But a lot of guys are like that when they come in as freshmen or sophomores, but the light kind of went on for him after that sophomore year. And his junior year, he started to transition maturity-wise into, hey, all right, if I'm going to be a great player, I've got all these tools. I got to – I've got to prepare a little bit better. And that's what he's done. And it's been awesome to see the transformation in him. I've seen many, many players that the light just comes on, and that's what's happened with Albert.
He's bought in. He's put the work in. He's grinded. And then the fact that, you know, he stayed. I mean, because when you're as talented – I mean, Albert, he's a high-NFL-caliber player, big time. And the fact that he stayed to be in a rotation with Dexter [Lawrence] and Christian [Wilkins]. I mean, those are two first-round guys for sure. And then you got Albert, who's – he's not far off of that. He's a really, really, again, high-level guy for the next level.
And the fact that he stayed and bought into just playing in the rotation of those three guys, all of them have worked well together. I'm really proud of him. And, hey, you hate it for Dexter in this situation he's dealing with, but, man, what an opportunity for Albert to really make a statement here down the stretch.
When you played Notre Dame in 2015, that was kind of a pivotal game for your program at the time. Can you kind of share your reflections from that night and also discuss how that's kind of springboarded your program to where it's gotten to?
Yeah, I don't really see that as a springboard. I think the springboard to our program was 2010, to be honest with you. That sounds crazy. We won six games that year. But that's kind of, for me, when I knew that we really had the
foundation in place, just how I saw our team handle that season, how they competed. And then, the very next year, we won the ACC in '11. To me, that was kind of the – we won the division in '09 and then we come back in '11 and win the league, win ten games for the first time. Now we're at eight 10-win seasons in a row. To me, that was kind of the pivotal moment. You know, Tajh Boyd taking over in '11 and leading us to that first title. We just kind of went from there. But, certainly, that game in '15 was one of those steps.
I think we've made a lot of steps along the way, and that was definitely one of those steps, because it was game day. Both teams had been off for 16 days, if I remember correctly. For whatever reason, we had this crazy layoff. And I believe we had just won up at Louisville, a big win. We knew we had a good team. It was Deshaun's [Watson] sophomore year, and we were somewhere top ten maybe, nine or ten. And they were two or three or somewhere up in the top five, if I remember correctly.
It was one of those games where, if you lose it, you weren't going to be out of it, it was early in the season; but if you win the game, you got a chance to really position yourself well at that stage of the season. But it was just a lot of emotion in that game. It was game day. And Clemson people had been looking forward to that game since it was announced because they hadn't played them since the late '70s, Joe Montana, last-minute drive, big shocker there. So it was just a lot of buildup to it, a lot of energy, a lot of emotion for both teams. And then it was a hurricane on top of it.
I literally remember late – sometime in the third quarter, you literally could not see across the field. I mean, it was unbelievable. But it was one of the funnest games I've ever been a part of it. It's an epic game. It's a shame that somebody had to lose.
But for it to come down to a two-point play, and I still have visions of Ben Boulware slapping his head and doing forward flips all across the field, getting up, celebrating. It was – it was an awesome moment. Travis Blanks and Kevin Dodd, all those guys that were in on that play, it was special.
And I think that was, again, a national win for us, if you will, out of conference, that gave that particular team a nice little boost going into the rest of the season. But there were a lot of big wins in that season, for sure. There was some big ones, a lot of close games.
Given that this is your fourth straight year in the College Football Playoff, Notre Dame has never been here before, just how much does that experience help you guys?
Well, I think we're a veteran team, for sure. And I think
experience is definitely good. But it still doesn't have anything to do with the game. I think, at the end of the day, you got to play well. You know, it's just as simple as that.
When we got here in 2015, we had not been in this situation either. And we beat a really good Oklahoma team, and Baker Mayfield and all that. You have to play well in this game. It's a few plays in games like this. So I'm thankful that we've got an experienced team. But I still – it still comes down to how you play on that particular day.
As a head coach, do you remember what was going through your mind in the moments leading up to kickoff for your very first playoff?
Yeah. We try to prepare for all these games the same, to be honest with you. You just obviously have a lot more time, but once we get into this point right here, this is Thursday for us, it becomes very routine. And there's just certain things that we do. This is obviously not routine. But when we're done with this and we get back to our meetings and practice today, it will be very, very routine for us all the way till kickoff. So, you know, it's exciting. You just embrace it. It's fun. This is what we all work hard to do, and there's only four teams that are getting a chance to experience this particular setting. But, you know, we try to treat it like any other game.
As far as just how unique the situation is with Dexter [Lawrence] and the other two guys, how difficult is it to be as transparent as you want to be when it comes to just what happened and how this whole thing kind of came about?
Not difficult at all. I can't be any more transparent. I really can't. I laid it out. Got a call on Thursday, 'Here's what happened.' The rest, I have no clue. I can't be any more transparent than that. This is exactly what it is. I've never heard of it. I could have easily said whatever violation for whatever rules, but I felt like, again, that it was important to be specific because I just – I know that these guys have not intentionally done anything. So I don't know how more transparent I can be than that.
How has the independent research gone as far as just – are you close to finding an answer?
I'm focused on Notre Dame. That's it. That's my job, to coach the team. I'm not a chemist or scientist or nutritionist or AD or lawyer or any of that stuff. I'm the football coach, and that's it.
I know that you said you were focused on Notre Dame, but did you get achance at all to see the TCU-Cal game last night?
I did not. I was at the Mavs game. So I was watching the Mavs and the Pelicans and watching J.J. Berea and Luka Doncic tear it up for the Mavs. It was awesome.
Dabo, you talked about, when you first got the Clemson job, you paid a visit to Texas. Mack Brown showed you around for two days. He's back in the ACC now at North Carolina. One, what do you remember about that visit to Texas back then? And, two, what do you think of Mack coming back to the ACC?
I'm super happy for Mack, he and Sally. I'm pumped that this is something that they – I don't think he would have taken any other job but that job. I think it's a great way for him to finish on his own terms, the way he wants to finish, to help build their program back. I don't have any doubt he'll do that. He's going to be awesome for our league. I'm excited about the meetings, to be in that setting with Coach Brown.
But, specifically to your question, I got the job in December of '08. So we went through our very brief recruiting process that we had. We signed 12 guys that February. And I reached out to several coaches to try to go visit just, really, prominent head coaches that I didn't know but I felt like they did things the right way and I just wanted to go and pick their brain.
And Mack was the only one that said okay. And I didn't really know Mack, but I just remember calling him up and left a message. He called me back. And he was just very congratulatory. He said, 'Man, I'm really happy for you. I actually kept up with you,' which I thought was kinda cool that Mack Brown was paying attention to what the interim guy was doing at Clemson. He said, 'Heck, yeah, come on out.' And so I did, brought the whole staff.
And it was awesome. It was great. Their staff was very gracious. And I was just hoping to get a little bit of time with him, and he spent several hours with me. I'll always be so grateful for that. I mean, here's a guy that has been there, done that numerous times. And I just had a lot of specific things that I wanted to pick his brain on and took pages of notes and just had great conversation, and came away with some confirmation and came away with maybe some different thoughts as well. So it was just – it was an incredibly meaningful meeting for me as we came back and really kind of kicked our new program off going into that first spring.
I remember you saying you still had the file marked 'Mack Brown' that you sometimes looked at. What was the biggest takeaway you got from meeting with Mack or the biggest takeaways?
I don't know of the biggest takeaway, probably just be who I am. And just time management, that had been a real challenge. Going from the interim, as you can imagine, and just trying to figure out where I needed to put my time, because there's a lot of plates spinning. So he was just – he was great in all aspects. That was probably two of the biggest things right there, was just kind of managing my time a little better, being able to say no, just kind of talking to him about how he managed some certain things and requests. It can be a little overwhelming. And then just being who I am.
Did you have a sore neck at all after your first practice in here from looking up at the Jumbotron all the time?
Not really, because I was out here on the field and I was a little frustrated. I think they should have put it on the bottom too. You know, I just looked up, and I couldn't see anything. I guess, if I stood on the sideline, maybe. I was kind of always out here on the field, and I couldn't really see anything.
With these types of games, is it nice to have a few days where you come in here and practice in the stadium so you get used to it instead of it being a brand-new experience on Saturday for you?
Yeah, especially for this situation. This is really unique, the lighting. I'm anxious to see the timing of when we play, what that's going to look like in here from a sun standpoint.
But it's really unique for your receivers, the way the lighting structure is in here, the punt catchers. Even your kickers and punter, I mean, they're not used to kind of having something over the top. But I'm going to tell you, we punted that thing. That's up there. It looks – it's a lot higher than you think. I think just the magnitude of this building makes it look a little lower, but it's really high. But it's super cool.
Yeah, it's been great. And I think our focus has been good. We've had plenty of room to do what we need to do. We got a great weight room. We pretty much have had a workout every day too. So it's been nice.
You obviously have gone through this numerous times with your team, but do you ever allow yourself to have a moment or two where you are reminded of being a fan and you're like, hey, we're here, I'm coaching in the playoffs and I'm coaching against Notre Dame, a program you grew up watching, I'm assuming, as a younger coach or a younger person. I don't know if you were coaching in the '80s or not, but you never know.
Do you ever let yourself have a moment or two where you're like, hey, this is kind of cool?
I was in high school in the '80s. I graduated '88, and then I went to Alabama. Absolutely, every day, every day. Every day, I have a moment. Every day, I get to walk on this field. Every day, I get to hop on the bus and watch those crazy people on those police motorcycles fly around and ride side to side. I mean, it's awesome. I just appreciate every aspect of it to the nth degree. I try to get my players to be the same because it's such a privilege to be here.
And I've been in college football now for a long time, since '89. I've had a lot of great experiences, and I have an appreciation for how fast it goes and how fleeting time is. And none of us are promised tomorrow. So absolutely, every day I wake up, I thank the good Lord for another day and for the opportunity to do what I do.
So the one big question I think a lot of us, if not all of us, here are really wondering: Carolina or Texas barbecue?
Let's see. I'm trying to think. I don't think I've had Texas barbecue yet. I don't think I've had. So I got to go with the Smoking Pig back in Clemson.
With the ascension of Travis Etienne this year, just your thoughts on how Tavien Feaster has kind of – it seems like he's really remained positive, remained humble, hasn't been a problem as far as chemistry. And this is a guy that could probably be a featured back at most any other college in the country.
Oh, No doubt about it. I mean, you know, Feaster is a starter for us and started a bunch of games over the last couple years, but was hurt in camp, was a little banged up in camp, and it took him a little while to get back to 100%. And Travis just took off and really won the job.
But, as I said, coming into the season, I felt like our backs were going to be a real strength for our team. That was the one position that I thought, when the season was over, people were going to say, man, what a year we've had at running back.
And we have. We're one of the top ten rushing teams in the country. And it's a credit to all those guys. Obviously, Travis has just been just amazing, unbelievable. Feaster, as he got healthy, has had some very impactful moments as well, as has Adam Choice.
For sure, the chemistry in that room is special. They're all close friends. They all
support each other. I think all three of those guys will play at the next level. And I think if you look at any great team in the NFL, or any great team here, there's more than one guy. That's just the way it is. There's usually two or three guys that kind of carry the load together. And that's certainly the situation that we have here. But we're very confident in any of those guys going out there and being a starter for us at at any particular time. But Travis has certainly separated himself and had an All-American-type season.
As far as Tavien [Feaster] specifically, would it have been easy for a guy like that to kind of go sideways a little bit with the way things have panned out with Travis [Etienne], with Tavien being the starter last year and probably figuring he would play his final two years looking to really do some big things as an individual here?
Well, I think in a world of individual, yeah, it would be easy. But this is – we have a close team. And I think our culture is all about the right things. And, certainly, Tavien is a competitor. He knows his talent and we know his talent. He is a tremendous football player.
But he's a great young man, high character. At the end of the day, you got to compete. It's as simple as that. You get better. Wayne Gallman was a starter for the Giants last year, and they drafted Saquon Barkley. You know? I mean, you just go to work and you do your job. And you do it in a positive way to the very best of your ability and you stay confident in who you are. That's how you handle things. That's how you respond. You don't run from those challenges.
And I think that that's exactly what Tavien has done, is just taken advantage of his opportunities and shown up every day and competing his tail off. But he's got a bright, bright future, for sure.
Has Tavien [Feaster] discussed with you at all the possibility of maybe moving on to the NFL draft after this year?
No, no.
I just wanted to ask about Hunter Renfrow. We've done this before, but, since he's arrived, how much of the program has changed and, of course, he's been a huge part of that. Not a reflection, so to speak, but just kind of the impact he's had on the program here these last four or five years.
Yeah, so I guess he came in '14. That was his first year. He red-shirted that year. So he's had a heck of a run, that's for sure. It's been an amazing journey for him, both for our team and for him.
But, I mean, he's had complete transformation physically, first of all. He was 155 pounds when he got to Clemson. And now he's a massive, strapping 182. So he's 27, 28, 30 pounds heavier than when he arrived. And he couldn't hardly bench the bar when he got to Clemson. I think he can maybe do 225 maybe five times now. So he's Hulk.
It's just amazing. He really is. I mean, he is one of the most unique stories that you will ever see in college football. And just a great young man. First of all, just a great teammate, and one of the hardest workers we've ever had. He's always the same guy. I've never seen him have a bad day, ever. Even when he's – gets hurt or something like that, he just always has such an incredible spirit to him.
He loves his teammates, but he's the most normal person you would ever meet. You would never in a million years meet him and think that he – and then watch a highlight of him and be like, that's that guy? You know? He's so unassuming, very humble. But I'm telling you, he has become a superstar on the field.
I mean, it's just absolutely incredible what he has done. We've had some amazing receivers come through Clemson. And we got a team full of them right now, but he's the most unique, without question. And has just been clutch time and time and time again, very skilled. He's fast. He's explosive. He's not a tall guy, but he plays long. He's got great length. His lateral ability is special.
And he's going to be to be a great pro, man. I mean, I can't wait to see – the game is going to be easier for him at the next level because of the way the rules are. I'm telling you, he's going to be – what you're seeing right now, he's going to be beyond that at the next level. The guy is just a brilliant football player. I can't wait to see him and what he's going to do after Clemson.
But his transformation has been awesome, and he's been a part of every step of the way with our program as it's grown.
And then the other one I want to ask you about is Tee Higgins, his development this year and just your perception of how much better he has gotten, the impact he's had on your team.
He was obviously a highly recruited guy coming out of high school, very talented, as we knew. But, really, just – and had a really good freshman year, but just needed to get in the weight room. He was a basketball guy that needed to become a football guy.
And that's exactly what he's done. So the experience he got last year was priceless
for him because he had a vision for what it looked like and what he needed to do to become a great player at this level. And, man, he put the work in in the off-season, very focused, very mature, high character, and just a young man that knows exactly what he wants. I'm really proud of him, good student.
But he has grinded this entire season. Boy, has he been dominant. To me, he has been as good as anybody out there. He's a big-time boundary receiver for us.
Now, there's been a huge controversy going on right now. And that controversy is, who has better hair, me [Justin Falcinelli] or Trevor Lawrence?
Let me think about that. I'm going to have to go with you, Falci, because, simply, you're the more mature. You're a little older, a little more seasoned. Your hair has been around longer. So I think that, you know, you don't really put as much effort into it, so it comes a little more natural to you. And he probably has all kind of products and things like that to make his look beautiful, and you're just kind of all natural. So I'm going to give the nod – shout-out to the O.L.
What's the latest on Dexter [Lawrence], and how has your team been handling it?
We don't know anything. There's no latest. Should know something today. We have just been preparing like it's an injury.
When you see him here talking to the media today and saying 'I can't do anything about it, but I wanted to make sure to come talk,' what message do you think that sends?
I gave those three guys the option just because, you know, they don't want to be a distraction. And they know that if they walk in here, there's going to be a million of the same questions that they really can't answer. But Dexter [Lawrence] was pretty adamant that he wanted to come just simply because he's a leader on this team and he loves his teammates. And he's a very mature guy. And he has nothing to hide. The other guys don't either.
But, like I said, Dexter's role as a leader, he felt like it was important that he be here to support these guys.
He said when you called him that he said, 'Are you crazy?' What did you feel like when you were calling them?
I mean, I couldn't even believe it. I thought my AD was joking with me when he called. But, really, they all three had the same reaction, just total disbelief. So then it was just trying to ask questions, trying to get to the bottom of any possible way that it – just kind of going back through anything, from a hair product to whatever, and then let Natalie [Honnen] and them kind of step in and take it from there.
It was tough because you know this is something that they've worked hard to be a part of, an incredible disappointment, just heartbroken and disbelief. And same with the parents and so forth. So it was a very difficult phone call.
Has he mentioned any appeal other than the B sample showing a different result couldn't be done before Saturday? Do you think the NCAA should change that rule so in the future they would be able to fix it in time?
Yeah, I think they have a process that's in place. I mean, my big thing, I think there should a common sense committee, to be honest with you. There should be a common sense committee that could look at this situation and say, 'All right. Let's have some common sense here.' But I don't think that's part of the process. I don't think that committee exists. I think it's just more of a set process, it is what it is, and we're all at the mercy of that process.
I spent some time with Dexter [Lawrence]. He has really been a stand-up guy through this whole ordeal. That's who he is?
Dexter is one of the sweetest young people you'll ever meet in this world. He is an incredible young man, incredible. Great family, great student, great teammate. Your heart breaks for him, for sure.
But that's exactly who he is. I've been doing this a long time. And, trust me, I wouldn't stand up here and stand up for a guy that I didn't know without a shred of a doubt the type of person he is.
What are you thoughts on Number 23, Drue Tranquill, on the Notre Dame defense?
He's a great player. He's active. You can tell he's an unbelievable leader, really special young man as well. He's one of those Campbell guys like Christian Wilkins. This guy, he's just a winner. And you can tell that he's one of the heart and soul guys on that team, but heck of a player.
All those guys, I mean, their entire defense, this is the best defense we've played, for sure. They're very well-coordinated, very well-positioned, very seldom out of
place, and don't give up hardly any big plays. But he's a sideline-to-sideline guy.
As far as those who are on the outside alleging something nefarious with those three guys, what would you say to those people?
I'm not going to say anything. People can say whatever they want. It doesn't matter what anybody says. There's always going to be people that make their own judgments, and there's nothing to say to those people.
What does the All Black culture from the rugby team in Australia mean to the program?
Well, I read that book a couple years ago. It was just – the coach actually came through Clemson, which was really cool. I got that book. And I knew zero about the All Blacks until I read that book. And pretty fascinating to read the book and the culture that they have in place and how they've won so much games over the years.
And just little things, you know, how they clean the sheds, so to speak, after a world championship. So I just think that they've always done the little things probably better than everybody, and they've focused on their culture and take a lot of pride in that. So it was a great book for me to read.
How does a world champion rugby coach and a national champion football coach connect?
He was in town visiting our rugby – we have a club rugby team. And, for some reason, he was over here touring the States and doing something, and he came through Clemson. And the rugby coach at Clemson brought him over. And, again, I didn't have a clue who he was. I literally didn't know anything about him, took a picture with him. And so then fast-forward, this book gets sent to me. And I pick it up and I'm like, holy crap, that was that guy that was in my office. So I felt like an idiot then. So he was like Tom Landry of rugby or something.
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